Q&AInsight Meditation Society Retreat4 May 2014
Dharma Discussion group C3 — Defilements as Objects and Awareness of Mind
Sayadaw U Tejaniya · 1 hr 45 min
Original audio: Burmese · English interpretation
0:00−1:45:34
Uses compressed audio.
AI-written summary
This group interview explores recognizing defilements objectively without becoming lost in their story. The Sayadaw clarifies the distinction between merely experiencing and genuinely understanding, while offering guidance on handling restless thoughts and observing subtle mental processes.
Topics
Talks in this retreat
Insight Meditation Society Retreat · 35 talks
- 1934 minGuided meditation — Present Moment Knowing and Momentum of Awareness3 May 2014
- 201 hr 39 minDharma Discussion group A3 — Doubt, Nature of Awareness and Objects, and Dukkha3 May 2014
- 212 hr 9 minDharma Discussion group B3 — Working with Defilements, Pain, and Effort3 May 2014
- 2228 minGuided meditation — Noticing Defilements and Continuous Awareness4 May 2014
- Viewing231 hr 46 minDharma Discussion group C3 — Defilements as Objects and Awareness of Mind4 May 2014
- 242 hr 1 minDharma Discussion group D3 — Working with Defilements and Right Attitude4 May 2014
- 251 hr 51 minDharma Discussion group E3 — Investigating Defilements and Reality of the Mind5 May 2014
- 262 hr 14 minDharma Discussion group F3 — Being Aware of Awareness, Personal Effort, and Looking Internally at Defilements5 May 2014
- 271 hr 41 minDharma Discussion group A4 — Practicing with Regret, Delusion, and Emotions6 May 2014
- 282 hr 1 minDharma Discussion group B4 — Wisdom, Delusion, and Relationships Between Defilements6 May 2014
Transcript
English
This is May 4, discussion group C with Sayadaw U Tejaniya at Insight Meditation Society.
English
Yes.
English
So I heard what you said today about not leaning into the defilements, but rather— I believe that you said
English
noticing them from different side angles rather than going right into them. And what I just want to share with you— and see if maybe there's a comment or a recommendation on where to go with this— is last night there was a defilement that was arising pretty strongly, and
English
it caught me. And I went— it seemed to me that maybe discerning the difference between going into it and going at an angle— maybe I want to clarify that, because it felt to me last night that I went right into the defilement and just kind of, you know, and circled around in it and got the flavor of it and got the knowing of it and got the awareness of it.
English
And then at some point it seemed to
English
just kind of melt, and then there was really, really strong concentration. So in other words, it— so it's at that point I said to myself, "Wow, so that's what it means to not have a choice object." My object was a defilement, and it really— I really focused on that object, and it seemed to make me really concentrated.
English
So
English
anything from what I said— kind of defi— awareness of defilement being an object— that could also be helpful. And just the subtle difference between
English
diving into an object and
[Burmese segment]
English
So what you've done is not what he means. focus focus
English
Yes. Yes. He says, "You're investigating." You know, when you say that you went in, you circled it, you found out all about it, and stuff like that. You're investigating it. And if you're investigating it, you're not— okay, the words become— so he repeated the word he used in Burmese.
English
He says, "Don't stick to the diff—" don't— well, I don't know whether that's the right— because you might— anyway, it's all metaphorically speaking. So if you're investigating, you already have that perspective of watching the defilement from different angles. If you're investigating. And that's what you said in your very words.
English
You said you circled it, you found out different things about it. He says, "Once that's happening, you actually have that distance from the object," which is the defilement in this case. The defilement is the object. You have the distance, and you have the awareness, and that's why you're able to learn about it. Not get lost in it, not get caught up in it.
English
So when you say the defilement melted away, did you understand something about the defilement?
English
Is that why it melted away?
English
I— I mean, I certainly am answering only in this moment because I'm just going with this flow. I think what happened— I experienced what happened— is that I was through investigating it, and it melted away. And then, for whatever reason of all the factors coming together, there was some of the strongest— after it melted away, there was some of the strongest focused concentration that I've ever experienced.
English
I don't know if— whatever factor. Yeah. Kamma asked about the object. Objectivity is the thing. Right. So there's two things, he says.
English
Two ways that the defilements can decrease. One is because we have an insight into the nature of the defilements, whatever the insight might be, and that makes the defilement go away. The second one is that we
English
are looking at the defilement objectively, and you might even be focusing on it. Yeah, you might be even focusing on it. But because you're looking objectively at the defilements and not getting sucked into its story,
English
and
English
you're looking at the defilement continuously. Feeling within our genealogy. Yeah. investigate a little bit. I mean—
English
sorry, I keep losing what I was going to say.
English
And the samādhi— samādhi is built from just paying attention to the defilement. Just paying— from just knowing it, investigating. If samādhi is increasing, the defilement can also go down because your samādhi is growing and because the mind is not thinking about the defilement. So that's another way that the defilements go down, is when the mind doesn't think about it anymore, it's not judging it, then the defilement goes down because it's not being fed by the mind.
English
Yeah, so that's— So when it's not being judged, it's not being fed, something like that? Yeah. So there's an objective observation, but that one is— The defilement will— So in this case, there's no insight arising, but it still goes down simply because of the— it's like a replacement work. So awareness and objectivity and samādhi have replaced the defilement, slowly.
English
Yeah. Defilement, I overlook you. Feeling you a lot. So when you were observing the defilement, he wants to know what were you observing particularly? Just the feeling of it, or the thoughts that were involved, or what were you?
English
It had to do with
English
how I spend— how I spend money had to do with, I guess, greed.
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Sayadaw U Tejaniya began his Buddhist training as a young teenager in Burma under the late Shwe Oo Min Sayadaw (1913–2002). After a career in business and life as a householder, he has become a permanent monk since 1996.…