Q&AShwe Oo Min Dhamma Sukha Retreat5 Mar 2017
Day 5 Discussion group D — Natural Effort and Not Personalizing Experiences
Sayadaw U Tejaniya · 1 hr 47 min
Original audio: Burmese · English interpretation
0:00−1:47:21
AI-written summary
This group interview explores the distinction between personal striving and natural effort arising from practice momentum. The teacher explains the universal nature of the mind, releasing the urge to control, and maintaining awareness of defilements throughout daily experiences.
Topics
Talks in this retreat
Shwe Oo Min Dhamma Sukha Retreat · 18 talks
- 52 hr 4 minDay 3 Discussion group D — Wrong View, Reactions to Objects, and Meditation as a Way of Life3 Mar 2017
- 61 hr 25 minDay 4 Discussion group A — Nature of Thoughts and the Sense of Self4 Mar 2017
- 71 hr 47 minDay 4 Discussion group C — Recognizing Wrong Attitudes, Defilements, and the Nature of Mind4 Mar 2017
- 81 hr 17 minDay 5 Discussion group B — Observing Defilements, Conceit, and Habits5 Mar 2017
- Viewing91 hr 47 minDay 5 Discussion group D — Natural Effort and Not Personalizing Experiences5 Mar 2017
- 101 hr 15 minDay 6 Discussion group A — Free Will, Knowing the Mind and Anchor Objects6 Mar 2017
- 111 hr 19 minDay 6 Discussion group C — Working with Six Sense Doors and Reactions6 Mar 2017
- 121 hr 36 minDay 7 Discussion group B — Being Aware of Thinking and Noticing Judging Mind7 Mar 2017
- 132 hr 16 minDay 7 Discussion group D — Observing Defilements and Looking for Cause7 Mar 2017
- 141 hr 10 minDay 8 Discussion group A — Cause and Effect, Anatta, and Role of Samatha8 Mar 2017
Transcript
EnglishGood. March 2017, Sunday, Vithal Law, 6:00 PM, group D. Yes.
EnglishOkay. I have questions regarding sati prathana, especially yesterday Sayadaw has shared the touch and no-touch, no-end, the finger exercises. So, before this,
Englishthe way I check the knowing mind is, for instance, I know I'm sitting. There is a knowing mind that knows that I'm sitting, and at the same time I try to pick up another object as an unhearing hearing is happening. So there is a mind that knows hearing is happening and sitting is, the touching is happening, and this knowing mind that knows that encompasses these two things.
EnglishThis is how I check the knowing mind. It seems a little bit mechanical, but yesterday after Sayadaw shared the finger exercise thingy, I tried to practice it. So when I touch two fingers together, there is a knowing mind that arises together with the touching sensation. And when I let it go, there is another knowing mind that arises that notices there is no touching going on.
EnglishSo I found that this method is easier to check the knowing mind. But my question is that when I touch two fingers together, does it belong to kaya pasandhi? Do I contemplate the body, or do I contemplate the mind as it is? Whatever you contemplate, that's what you contemplate.
EnglishSo I can see that I'm looking at the sensation itself rather than the knowing mind. I can only. So this is only the kaya vipassanā, right? When you're paying attention to the sensation, it's kaya vipassanā. When you're knowing the knowing mind, that's what it is. Right, I'm going to say that. That's what is chitta vipassanā.
EnglishOkay? So it can be constantly changed. But because it seems that the knowing mind arises together with the touching sensation, it's like a thin line to differentiate the body and the knowing mind. Though, we mean dignity. Really? Pity of the dignity. Tima dignity, yeah. Tua anak pun dignity. Okay.
EnglishHatuwezi tuna huhu. Tua eh, eh. Anyways, I don't know if tua is shared or not. Please say that. I don't know if tua caption it now. Yeah. What you're seeing is actually
Englishthe consciousness that arises with the object. So you're calling it the knowing mind, and it arises with every object. And then there's something that knows that, right? Yes. That's what he calls the observing mind of this. Now, generally, we call this the knowing mind because most people cannot know the consciousness. Yes? Yes.
EnglishI was
Englishtaking your advice to continue looking further at the equanimity that was arising from awareness of seeing. And I realized that there was a big wrong view, actually. I was personalizing it. So it was
Englishmy equanimity, and I had created it. And when I saw that wrong view, at that point, right view was present. And
EnglishI feel like it was a tiny direct experience, actually, of mind as nature. Because it was very powerful, very free. And
Englishyeah, I felt extremely free at that point. And I felt like a burden had been lifted off of my shoulders. Like now I could just relax and observe the mind. And I wasn't responsible for creating this peace and freedom.
EnglishAnd also, it gave rise to
Englisha lot of trust and faith in this mind as nature. And it kind of reminds me a little bit of maybe it comes from Zen: big mind, little mind. So it was kind of this feeling of a big mind. Yeah. So. To mania honia as in piha tu acha mpira ndiyo.
[Burmese segment]
Englishright view wale
[Burmese segment]
EnglishYes. When we have a direct experience or insight, he said that's how it feels. There is relief, there is saddha, there is understanding, there is all these. And so, from that point, practice has been feeling relaxed.
EnglishAnd I'm just sort of along for the ride in observing what's arising in the mind. But maybe too relaxed. Ninakuja chai mila. He says, "All you need to do is keep checking that the mind is relaxed and still aware."
EnglishSo that's the balance. Relaxed walaitei pea. Low down. Low Yeah. Because he says, when we say relax, it just means that the. The atmosphere relaxes. The defilements relax.
EnglishBut effort doesn't relax. Effort continues at a steady pace.
EnglishI guess I misunderstand effort, or I've confused effort with trying to do something. Yeah. Twa effort kwa hulo, you ama lutee ntaala. Eh, juu effort ya shemo hupiti. Ya ankanganga na lo effort ya pala. Low ni vizuri. Pas na effort tete ama low. Yeah. So there is, you know, he always talks about effort that comes natural effort, which means that the momentum has picked up and the mind is starting to do it of its own momentum.
EnglishAnd personal effort. And he says, when there is more wisdom that understands how to practice that, that natural effort comes in more easily. Then we don't have to do so much personal efforting. When it fades away, we have to do the personal again. But while it's there, we just need to keep a check on it by seeing that the awareness is still present.
[Burmese segment]
EnglishLute na. When the understanding is stronger, the sense is not so much of, "I am trying to practice," but that awareness is happening. That things are being known. That's the sense that comes.
EnglishCha saia. Na ni ya api la luluwa mdogo. He says, when we don't know how to practice, when the mind has not learned how to practice, it's not skillful. Yes, we have to put in effort so that learning can happen and so on. But when the mind has learned, it starts to do some of that by itself. It's skillful. Hapo bwana, ama lute kwa mdogo.
EnglishAt some point, it feels like I personally don't have to try to be aware. The mind can't. It has become its nature to be aware. Haina kuwa. Tulia. It has built that habit. Eh, ni macho yake naya. Efa less kit wale. Efa less wa pas na efa ukiwa na natural effort. Eh, ni haja ya kijanja twa ama ndehele twa twa tini ya upime ndo cheni.
EnglishNi ya hiyo twa pas na effort inatwalo ama ndehele. He says, what happens when we're not so skillful yet is that we kind of sail into natural effort after much personal effort. And then we don't know how to maintain it. There is not that skill yet, right? We're coming on it anew, like fresh. And then, because of the lack of skill, eventually it fades.
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Sayadaw U Tejaniya began his Buddhist training as a young teenager in Burma under the late Shwe Oo Min Sayadaw (1913–2002). After a career in business and life as a householder, he has become a permanent monk since 1996.…